#1 2009-11-10 11:34:55

**_davidroethler_**

Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

I am frequently organising meetings with up to 20 persons sitting in an offline-conference-room and many people participating online via Adobe Connect. Echo cancellation is still an unsolved problem for me.

Who has experience with such microphones and Adobe Connect?

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product … ucts/300v/

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product … cts/100uh/

Any advice highly appreciated!

Last edited by **_davidroethler_** (2009-11-10 11:35:21)

**_BCCAresearch_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

How are your remote users audio set up? While we don't use the same hardware as you have listed, we do run meetings that are very similar. The biggest challenge we've had is with the remote users audio setup. The conference room is rarely the cause of the feedback.

Otherwise the short answer would be get a directional microphone for the conference room and place it well ahead of the speakers.

**_davidroethler_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

Im my case the remote users usually use headsets. The problem is the echo caused by open mikes and loudspeakers in the conference room. I would really need some good solution for cancelling the echo in the conference room and enhance the experience for remote participants.

**_craigg_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

I, like others, am still looking for a solution that would allow all ends of a AC session to participate headset free, mics locked on, much like Polycom offers.

I thought the key was echo cancellation. It makes sense that if you can employ a "box" that is listening to all the audio (near and far) the box can decide what audio is to go where and consequently limit or reduce echo by making educated decisions on the audio flow directions.

To that end I borrowed a Gentner AP400 Signal Processing box which I was hoping to use primarily for echo cancellation. I have been told by some A/V practitioners that what I want to do is not possible (so how does Polycom do it?) Others have suggested it is possible. So far I have had no luck- echo continues no matter how I connect the Gentner or how I configure its settings.

I then checked out much of ClearOnes product line. I am thinking that if I cannot get the Gentner to do what I want then the various ClearOne systems and devices may also not aid an AC session as far as echo cancellation.

Not giving up yet!

**_thomasattrp_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

We may have a possible solution. We use the Acoustic Magic mic (http://www.acousticmagic.com/) which has been reviewed on Adobe's web site (http://www.adobe.com/resources/acrobatc … onnect.pdf).  It has the capacity to pick up everything in an environment or be directed toward speakers--speakers within a 45 deg. angle spread from the mic can be heard and any noises coming from any other direction will not be picked up.   Though we haven't used it exactly as you need, we have used it while recording and have found that noises, voices, etc. that are not within the 45 deg. angle don't get picked up.

So, a solution might be, using this mic,  turn on the 45 deg. mode and place the speakers behind the mic.  The speakers will be heard by the audience, but the mic won't pick up what is coming through the speakers thereby eliminating the echo.

If not clear, email me and we'll discuss.

Thomas

**_thecouches_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

We have also been searching for a solution to the echo cancellation issue.  We are wanting to use Connect Pro for some of our distance learning classes, but have not been successful in getting rid of the echo which makes it very difficult for a teacher to teach when speaking and hearing themselves back a few seconds later.  I would be very interested in testing this microphone out or hearing from others who try it out.  Is there a trial period that we would be able to test this microphone out to see if it is effective in elliminating the echo?

Darren Couch
Southeast Kansas Education Service Center

**_thomasattrp_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

I believe Acoustic Magic has a 30 day (maybe longer) satisfaction guarantee. They are easy to work with.  Call them. They replaced one we had with a defect within a very short period of time.  Works great.

Thomas

Last edited by **_thomasattrp_** (2009-11-24 17:15:28)

**_davidroethler_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

I bought the Yamaha PJP-50USB and it seems to work very well.
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product … cts/50usb/
Echo cancellation is fine. Most of the time there are no echos to hear.
The recording quality is great. Even if the speaker is distant 5 meters or even more.

I would like to know if this product would be interesting for small groups or single person as well:
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/soundgadget/product/index.html
Did anybody try?

BTW I did not have good experiences with Acoustic Magic. I had to send it back.

Last edited by **_davidroethler_** (2009-12-05 12:32:56)

**_mbetka_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

greetings all,

Following this thread I see several products mentioned.  Now that some of you have tested these out, which would you reccommend as the best solution for a two-way audio discussion with mics locked on?  Is it the Yamaha model mentioned last?

**_dyun_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

Have people played around with the Echo Cancellation capabilities native in the Connect Pro Add-In?

This is accessible if you go to Meeting >  Manage My Settings > Audio Setup Wizard...

On the last page of the Audio Setup Wizard, is an Advanced Settings button.  If you click it there is the option to "Use Enhanced Audio" where you can setup echo cancellation.

Audio Setup Wizard instructions that describe what each of these options mean can be found here:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AcrobatConn … A2FFB.html

I haven't done a ton of testing with this since I'm always using integrated telephony, but I'm curious why it doesn't seem to get used by people who primarily use VoIP?

**_pafell_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

For the longest time (dating back to the Connect Pro 6 days) everyone was strongly advised NOT to use the Enhanced Audio because it introduced as many problems as it solved.

David, are you suggesting that most/all of these have been resolved by Connect 7.5 and that is now RECOMMENDED that we use Enhanced Audio?

I'd be curious about the experiences of others with using the enhanced audio under Connect 7.5.  Does it seem to be working reliably when this feature is activated?

Thanks!  -Paul

**_dyun_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

I am not an employee of Adobe so I can't comment on any changes with the echo cancellation capabilities in the add-in in 7.5 and in fact don't know if anything has changed or not in recent releases.  I'm just curious to know if anyone has been able to figure out exactly how to set it up to work well...but I'm guessing not since support has been advising people not to use it, the answer is probably no.

**_BCCAresearch_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

Hi David,

I've played with them a little, unfortunately it was difficult to tell how much it was helping and how much it was hindering. We were able to almost eliminate the echo however it added a time delay that was similar to using the camera and voice pod over WIFI. Hardware solutions and deliberate microphone placement seems to be the best fix.

-L

**_CCWWW_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

I just the advanced audio settings all the time in a classroom setting.  I have an open lav on the instructor. We use enhanced audio> full duplex, audio quality custom>256> good.  Make sure that the speakers are in front of the speaker, so there is't feedback from distance participants.

**_ConnectUser_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

We also have the same problem and putting bandaids on the problem does not seem productive.

Question to Adobe: why can skype meeting users have no echo when not using headphones?

**_davidroethler_**

Re: Integrated Solution Microphone, Speaker, Camera, Echo-Cancellation

After some weeks I can tell you that I am very satisfied with my Yamaha microphones. The built-in echo cancellation works really fine. No need to use a head-set anymore. The solution is not the cheapest one and it really remains an open issue why Adobe cannot have a software solution like Skype offers. You can have a look at my review at my weblog at http://politik.netzkompetenz.at/?p=761 (in German, but all links with further information in English)