#26 2009-02-27 16:31:18

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

We always use a wired connection rather than wireless because we feel that is a best practice.

Latest update on my issue is that I am working with Adobe to try and figure out the problem.  It seems to be showing up less, but still there.  There seems to be a correlation between the audio problem and the session being recorded with Connect (common with every time we have seen the issue).  If we aren't recording, we don' thave audio drops.  Also, we have seen a correlation with using the chat pod and the audio dropping, but we don't have good data on that either.

One thing that is interesting, is though on some recordings the audio drops are consistant with the live expereince, we have gone back to find that the audio is there on the recording, but dropped for most everyone when it was live.  The drop during the live is supported by the chat referencing the audio drop.  So, that is one more thing we know, but still no clear source of the issue (other than SP2).

Adobe support and I think someone from Adobe Connect engineering are participating in a meeting we have this afternoon, so maybe we will get some new data that will help.

If anything else comes up, I will update again.

-Chris

**_kova4_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

There are definately issues with connect 7 and the VOIP - we are a licensed customer and use 7.0sp1 and 2 and also 6.3 - we find that version 6.3 is rock solid compared to 7.0 when it comes to voip and video - we test and test, using all sorts of mics, connections and video -

There are issues with the echo cancellation as well as the echo problems - I am waiting for the new build of the VOIP system in 7.5 -

**_JJ_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

We are also licenced customers and have audio problems. The most common scenario is that the audio gets choppy for some of the meeting participants, but not for all. It usually helps to close the connect meeting window and come back...

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

JJ, when it is only a few users having audio problems, I have found that it is often a connection speed issue, and they need to change their setting under the meeting pull down.

Kova, you hit the nail on the head.  Adobe rebuilt the VoIP codec with version 7(which is what Adobe told me), so 6 was definately better.  I would like to see an improvement before 7.5 later this year, but I have a strong feeling it is more than just a service pack needed for that update. 

Over all there is still no new info on my initial issue with this post, but we have worked with Adobe to collect data in a few meetings and will see if that helps find something to focus on as the cause (other than just Adobe breaking things again).

-Chris

**_bherrmann_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

7.5 later this year?  I need this problem solved before my webinar next week, my attendees pay for this webinars and expect better audio for their money.  The recorded version "includes all audio" answer is wearing thin with them.  Adobe promises to call me back with an update......

**_jameslloyd_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Wow, what a thread folks - I thought I was Adobe's Chief Complainant Officer!

I too have a lot of disappointment in Adobe Tech Support - but I really do think it is mostly an issue of their volume of calls - I've worked with some really talented support techs once I can get their attention.

Audio Drops - I can't recall a meeting where I've NOT experienced audio drops.  I webcast from one computer and listen as a participant on another, and audio drops always happen.   We are hosted by Adobe at acrobat.com.

Audio drops will occur more frequently as the clock approaches 12 and 6 - ie. when other accounts are likely accessing the servers for meetings.  I've never experienced a drop of more than 30 seconds - when audio has stopped for that long, then there is usually a complete loss of connectivity.

I can't confirm if there has been an increase in audio drops since SP2.  We conduct training from our central time zone to colleagues in Pacific Asia during the evening and those meetings always have the least number of audio drops.  Our meetings for timezones within the US have the worst number of drops - we try to finish using Connect before 10am central time - after that California wakes up and just getting into a meeting room can be tough.

Lastly, I do have to say that if anyone remembers the early days of this product when the audio dropped, rather than being choppy to catch up with itself, it would sound like a "Chipmunks" recording sped up to a high pitch.  For this change I am still thankful.

Last edited by **_jameslloyd_** (2009-03-03 16:08:08)

**_JayK_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

My webinar participants are also experiencing audio drops of up to 30 seconds and are complaining. We are considering discontinuing our use of VOIP until this gets remedied. On February 24, I filed ticket number 180764561 and was told I'd hear back within a day but I have not yet heard from Tech Support. I have also been experiencing increased instability of the system recently - and time lags of up to three or four seconds when switching between layouts. i just read that the system will be undergoing priority maintenance tonight. Hope that helps.

**_JJ_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

JJ, when it is only a few users having audio problems, I have found that it is often a connection speed issue, and they need to change their setting under the meeting pull down.

Yes that's true, but in our case it shouldn't be the problem. We have high speed connections and fast computers for all of our personnell. Audio problems occur randomly for different people in different meetings and we don't know why...

For example: Few days ago I helped one of our worker who uses connect quite often. She told me that it usually works just fine, but occasionally there are audio issues. There was a meeting going on and she told me that she heard other participants poorly. I logged into the meeting from my computer and the audio was fine for me and apparently for everyone else. Well, then I went to her office and yes, the audio was choppy. I closed the meeting room window and clicked "open a new meeting room window" (from the web page) and now the audio was ok again!!! Why is that closing window and coming back seems to help????? This has happened many times to many of our workers.

**_bherrmann_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

I received the following message from Adobe yesterday: 

After an exhaustive investigation we feel we

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

BHermann - Thanks for the update.  The maintenance last night was in dirrect relation to my issue, and I recieved a similar message.  Not sure what NIC means specifically, but I know it could refer to my company.  I have a call with Adobe later today about this and will bring up your feedback.

JayK - I would follow up with Adobe again to see what they say and if they have any update.  Part of the way I get a response is by letting them set contact points, and if they don't contact me when they say they will, I hound them until they are responsive.  I try to make them listen, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.  I have also gone so far as to use my sales contact to get in touch with management within support to ensure that I am receiving the support my company pays for.  I only had to do that once, and my service level has been better every since.  Getting Adobe engineering to listen is another story, but stay on them and make them help you.

All - I know that audio issues should be expected with VoIP, but the performace decrease after SP2 is what concerns me.  Audio drops during live meetings for everyone at the same time, but seems to be there on the recordings.  Now it sounds like that may even be in question.  My goal is to get things at least to where they were prior to SP2, if not improve them beyond that.  This is the first time I can think of where Adobe has been so active on fixing an issue, which is a good step.  I just hope things get better sooner rather than later.

-Chris

**_John_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

connect_701_r18 is the version we are on.  We had major audio VoIP drops yesterday in two meetings that were Ethernet connected to our LAN.  Sound just stopped.

I have had very bad results recording meetings with VoIP activated.

Some recent tests show that if I increase the mic volume to high in Connect and do some preliminary mic volume set up in Windows Sound Recorder, that I can get satisfactory recordings of the VoIP from my mic.  The other thing we are  going to try (again) is to set the Silence level to 0. Ealier posts indicated that Connect would drop the sound transmission if the Silence setting was above 0 and there were periods when no one was talking.

Last edited by **_John_** (2009-03-05 15:06:37)

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Intereseting post John.  I can't say that we have had problems with not being able to unmute our mics.  With every live webcast we do, we do test right before, mute the mics, let people in the room, and then unmute when we are ready to begin.  If it is consistant, I would suggest working with Adobe to look at the debug.log file to see what may be happening.  Others on the board chiming in or calling Adobe would be more helpful than me trying to explain what that is.

Regarging my issue and the maintenance update from the other night, I still have some testing, but Adobe said they found a hardware configuration on their end that they think was causing the problem.  That doesn't necessarily answer my concern about what happened with SP2, but if it fixes things, it fixes things.  Once we do some testing I will let everyone know my results.

-Chris

**_et_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Hi folks,

I work on the Connect Pro ops team and wanted to emphasize one of the points above:  we take all of the reported issues very seriously and our support team investigates every one.  The product team is aware of the discussion here and reviews the incidents filed via tech support.

I would like to clarify one item from recent posts, as we appear to have crossed some wires internally.  The maintenance done on Tuesday night was not designed to resolve VoIP issues.  A 'NIC' is a Network Interface Card, and there was a configuration update to some of the servers in one of the clusters.  The change that was made was to improve reliability, and should have had no effect (positive or negative) on the streaming (including VoIP) in Connect Pro.

It sounds like many of you are knowledgeable with respect to factors that can influence the behavior of Connect Pro, including host machine configurations, local network, internet connectivity, etc.  If you're already following best practices for your VoIP-enabled meetings, then we're especially interested in your issues.  Best practices would include, for example, avoiding wireless connections in favor of wired, and making sure your presenter computer doesn't have other applications running that could consume CPU or memory (affecting its ability to transmit voice).

If you continue to observe any issues with VoIP, please file a report with support for each occurrence.  I am working with the support team to ensure we're collecting enough data to help diagnose the issues.  Troubleshooting client-server issues over the Internet can sometimes require the participation of people on both ends, so if they ask you for additional details, I hope you will oblige.

Thanks for listening, and I look forward to the continued discussion and feedback.

Eric

**_kova4_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Thanks Eric, I appreciate you monitoring this site and completely understand the difficult task of diagnosing problems with a product that is beholden to an unknown entity such as the internet.

But let me make one thing clear - your product is the best thing going right now.  I have looked at just about everything.  However, please understand this -

1. There are many products that can share screens.
2. There are many products that can present slides.

There are NOT many products that can share voice and video while doing the above - and that's what makes your product unique!  When we were searching for a product to perform these tasks -2-3 years ago we found version 6 - it worked great! But version 7 has problems due to the new engine you are using.  Having the vid pod get worse in a new version is totally unsat.  Especially if it is your claim to fame!  Turning off enhanced audio was not a fix and there are still problems - we are a licensed customer and have reverted back to 6.3 - which is working very well. (this proves to me that there is a problem with the new code)

Understand that we love your product - but the reason we love it is mostly because of the video pod.  If you remember anything from this post, it is this - "Focus some programming time on the Video / Audio Pod and get it Right - it is what makes your product great".

We would be happy to share all of our testing data if you would like -

**_jcooper9099_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Any reason why this happened with the release of SP2?

I am guessing that set of NICs was not agreeable with some new packet size specification set in the code.

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

I asked the same question and I don't think there was an answer, just that this was something they found and hope it fixes things.

-Chris

**_et_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Hi,

@kova - appreciate the feedback.  Yes, please share all test data with support, they are the best aggregation and analysis point for the overall team.

@jcooper9099 - the NIC config change had nothing to do with the release.  I'm not sure if the SP2 case you mention is one with a licensed install where you reproducibly get it to work on SP1 but not SP2; if so, please let us know as that's not something I've seen.  The data I've seen isn't specifically related to SP2, but if you have add'l data that could help, I'd love to see it.

@roysdenc - if you're referring to the NIC settings, the change wasn't related to VoIP or SP2, just a config change related to reliability.  I'm assuming you're still experiencing VoIP issues - if so, please contact support so they can incorporate data about your issues into the analysis.

thanks
Eric

**_jcooper9099_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

@et - we are on a hosted account. We have had our problems with VoIP but it became unreliable to the point of being useless just about the time that SP2 was released. A possible conincidence...but looking at the evidence it seems that most people have had a problem with the release of SP2 as well.

Will you put the configuration change in your KB for those of us who are on a licensed account? A known solveable issue with speciic hardware could be easily remided with some specifics in a KB.

**_et_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

@jcooper9099 - if you have evidence of pre-SP2 working and post-SP2 working, please let me know - haven't been able to reproduce that particular before/after so far.

For those reading this thread who have accounts on NA3 (i.e. your URL is *.na3.acrobat.com) and have had VoIP issues, please let me know if your VoIP experience today is any different than earlier in the week (objectively better or worse, or roughly the same).

**_bbjawer_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

We have plenty of evidence, which we have sent to Adobe, of VoIP not working well since we got on the V7 system last year.  We have been told that changes were made in the last few days that should improve VoIP drops/pauses on NA3.  Initial tests show better VoIP quality, but more tests need to be done.

**_et_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

@bbjawer - thank you - glad to hear you've provided data to support.  If you observe any objective improvement in VoIP starting today (vs. yesterday or before) that would be useful data - please let me know.

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

et - I supplied some files to my support contact yesterday because we are still having issues.  Our big test is today when we have another large live meeting that is customer facing.  I will be collecting data there as well and getting it to Adobe support.  So far, I cannot tell if anything has improved since the hardware changes were made last week.

-Chris

**_et_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

@roysdenc - Thank you.  The NIC config changes should not have made a difference, and the miscommunication around that maintenance was unfortunate.  I look forward to your findings today if you're on NA3 (*.na3.acrobat.com) as there was a minor network config update on that cluster yesterday.  While it was not intended to fix any specific VoIP issue, if you happen to see an improvement with VoIP it would be good to know.  Thanks.

**_Shelley_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

Chris, thanks for starting this thread.  The VOIP issues have been the bane of my existence ever since the release of v7.  I haven't noticed if problems are better/worse with SP2, just that they are still there.  Also, thanks for pointing out that the problems worsen when you're recording a broadcast. It never occurred to me that that might be a culprit.  We test thoroughly before we open a seminar to participants, but of course we're not RECORDING during the test.

Eric, we're on the NA3 server.  We've had ongoing issues with VOIP and no longer pick up the phone to tell support about each incident.  I have found your support team and processes to be a huge source of frustration and a waste of time.

Like others have posted, my employer is putting pressure on me to find a different web conferencing solution because of the VOIP issues.  The crappy performance of Acrobat Connect in that single area is hurting our brand.  I want to believe that Adobe is putting a priority on fixing this, but WE NEVER HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT IT.  This forum is the only place where I can get some sense of what's going on, and unfortunately a lot of what I read are simply rumors.

Thanks for listening.

**_roysdenc_**

Re: VOIP audio drops increase after SP2

ET - I am on na3, so sucks for me.  Also, audio in todays meeting was less than desireable again.  I am sending files to my support contact as well os other info. 

And the problems continue...
-Chris